Frieza was a true genius.

Vegeta is an elite, but whether he is a genius is questionable.

>>5

I think it’s only right to call someone a genius for getting strong through self-study until training under Mr. Whis.

Even the Goku up to this point has been training hard, so Vegeta, who overwhelmed that Goku without any practice, is a genius, right?

Jiren is a genius.

With that level of an episode, they can become that strong.

>>8

What do you know about Jiren!

>>8

Why are they so strong…?

Has Goku never undergone a potential unlock type training?

Gohan frequently takes exams, but I haven’t seen Super.

>>9

It’s like super divine water, but there’s also a theory that it’s just a Saiyan-style power-up.

Gohan, Frieza, and Broly are just too genius…

If we think of it as Broly > Goku > Vegeta, then he has the least talent, right?

Both have Saiyan cells that are too strong, regardless of talent or anything else.

>>14

Not all Saiyans are the same.

Goku is good at training.

>>16

The training from Master Roshi was great.

>>16

That’s probably why they are good at instructing others in training.

Specifically, the difference between Future Gohan and Present Gohan.

There was no talk about that at all, so it feels a bit off to suddenly bring up the story of underachievers vs. geniuses here.

Goku doesn’t have the image of a failure, right…?

It’s probably because the existence of the weakling Radeitz leads to this kind of treatment here.

>>19

Since it’s decided that I am a low-ranking warrior from the moment I was born, it’s a fact within this worldview.

At this point, from the perspective of the viewers and Goku, it’s only natural to think that Vegeta is just talking on his own and they don’t know anything about it.

There are too many geniuses among the main characters in “Chou.”

Two people who seem relatively talentless.

>>20

In the original work, Gohan and Goten are more talented from the beginning…

>>20

Frieza → A genius who obtained strength equivalent to Blue in just a few months.

Hit → A genius whose abilities evolved continuously during battles.

Zamasu → Among the other Kai, who have combat power around 3000, he is an extraordinarily genius.

Jiren → A genius who became the strongest in the entire universe as a result of becoming obsessed with his own power.

The embodiment of talent is Krillin.

That guy is just an Earthling.

>>21

Even though he has a bit of a cornered situation, I don’t really have a strong impression of Krillin being particularly strong.

If the average Saiyan is about Raditz, then they must be incredibly smart.

>>22

I have heard that Raditz was put under Vegeta because he was more capable.

>>32

They were excellent as a child, but they give the impression of not having grown much since then.

At the time when they were drinking Super Divine Water, there was no setting for Saiyans, so it must be the effect of the Super Divine Water.

Is it okay for Thales to be an ordinary person?

>>27

I’m doping and I don’t even have the talent for effort.

Only Vegeta, Nappa, Raditz, and Goku (Gohan) are left among the Saiyans, and the sample size is small…

>>37

Both Goku and Vegeta are quick talkers, so their banter is enjoyable.

Even dropouts might surpass elites if they work hard desperately, you know?

Well then, let me show you a wall that cannot be overcome by effort alone!

Vegeta is truly a genius because he is fiercely determined.

At this point, it’s only at the level where Earthlings have barely managed to drive Vegeta back in a total war effort…

No one expected that this silly M-shape would later become a presence akin to one of the two main protagonists.

Especially the author themselves

Even if I lost, practically at that time I was stronger, but when we resumed 50 days later, somehow Kakarot had become several times stronger than me, and on top of that, he defeated Frieza in one go. From Vegeta’s perspective, it must feel utterly insane.

Because here, they’re just an extremely annoying person…

>>46

(Why is this guy getting popular…?)

Did they become popular because they were made to go wild on Namek, or did they go wild on Namek after becoming popular? Which is it?

>>48

It seems that I was supposed to be killed by Goku for the time being.

If the same Saiyan Kakarot can do it, I can do it too. Mastering the detection and control of energy is undeniably genius, Vegeta.

Vegeta is just from a good family, right?

It’s already been destroyed.

Because it’s Ryou Horikawa’s voice…

But the children say that Vegeta is more talented…

It seems that my son has better lineage…

Honestly, I’m just looking for a greater genius by comparing geniuses with each other.

Considering that the prince hasn’t really grown much for over 20 years, it’s understandable to be a little shocked by Goku’s growth, even if it’s partly due to the frequency of near-death experiences.

Up to this point, Goku is useless.

After getting on the spaceship, I suddenly become a genius.

>>58

Since he easily defeated Nappa, who was the second Saiyan, he is considered a genius compared to other Saiyans as well.

In discussions like this, it tends to be overlooked, but the one with the most talent is Gohan.

That guy officially surpassed even Broly.

>>59

Maybe that guy is activating his selfishness naturally.

It’s cruel to compare them to Gohan, as it feels like comparing acorns in height.

>>60

Half group with Earth

The problem of being too incredibly talented.

I think it’s genius that Goku has reached Super Saiyan 3 through training.

Even though there are drawbacks, don’t come up with such a dramatic power-up without any awakening.

From an ordinary person’s perspective, both are on the genius side, but there are many more geniuses who are more vivid.

It can be said that a calm heart for becoming a Super Saiyan leads to intense anger, which quite connects to the extent of power-up. I definitely agree that Gohan has the calmest personality, yet when he gets angry, he becomes someone you can’t handle.

>>65

The Kame Sennin style is the foundation for Goku.

Broly, who easily surpasses these two just by surviving on a harsh planet, is undoubtedly a super genius…

>>67

Rather, it was because he surpassed Vegeta even as a baby that he was exiled.

With a threefold Kaio-ken, we’re evenly matched, and even with a fourfold, I can’t take him down, so the difference in raw power is on another level.

>>68

In the first battle, Vegeta was that much stronger.

It feels like Goku has been rising ever since he became a Super Saiyan.

>>71

When Super Vegeta was feeling confident, Vegeta was actually the stronger one.

>>79

In other words, Goku during the Cell saga is always a supporting character.

>>83

Goku in the Cell Saga has been thinking for a long time that he wants to step back from the front lines and entrust things to the next generation.

If anything, that stance is also present in the Buu saga.

>>79

It’s just a difference in the order of entering the room, and after we enter the room, we both think, “Oh… it’s quite high up.”

I feel that Goku is really good at coming up with training methods that have potential for development.

I think Broly and Gohan are already halfway into becoming mutants.

It seems that Saiyans become stronger the angrier they get, just like Broly and Gohan.

Goku and Vegeta lack enough anger.

Goku had talent in the end, but he is a hard worker, right?

>>75

Vegeta was incredibly strong without putting in much effort until he became a Super Saiyan, while after becoming a Super Saiyan, he put in a lot of effort. It feels like Goku is the opposite; since becoming a Super Saiyan, he has been doing a lot of meditation and mental training, and his talent seems to be exploding more and more.

Gohan becomes a beast just by getting a little angry, even though he hasn’t trained much, so that guy is a bit weird.

Vegeta is a practical fighter…

The gravity over there was tough, and the idea to make it even stronger.

I think the genius that Goku refers to and the genius that Vegeta refers to are probably slightly different.

Goku’s delayed escape from Namek made it quite convenient for him to learn Instant Transmission.

Controlling the giant ape is an inherent bloodline trait that cannot be overcome, even with training, so there are limitations based on one’s birth.

When you think about it, Saiyans aren’t really that strong on average.

>>87

The only ones where the average is somewhat known among other species are Earth and Namekians.

I think it’s okay to claim to be the strongest race if it includes big apes.

Vegeta adopted meditation and visualization training after the main story ended, and as a result, he has become quite a bit stronger, but it seems that Goku still has a higher training sense.

For Goku, Vegeta’s approach of training alone without collaborating with anyone is certainly genius.

In the Buu Saga, Vegeta says, “You are a genius who surpasses me,” so it’s certain that both of them are geniuses…

>>90

I really like how you acknowledge things.

>>90

If anything, even in the Cell saga, it’s frustrating, but that guy Kakarot is a genius… that’s how it is.

Isn’t Bardock’s battle power of 10,000 pretty incredible? I’m not sure if it’s official or not, though.

I like how Vegeta immediately responded to the dimensional warp while Goku was struggling a lot when fighting Super Janemba, even though it’s an original anime plot.

I think both of them are geniuses; they just express their genius in different ways.

However, it may also be said that neither of them are geniuses, due to the extraordinary growth speed of other characters.

It’s sad that the only moment when Vegeta surpassed Goku after the Saiyan Saga was just that brief instant when he came out after being allowed to use the Room of Spirit and Time.

When Vegeta feels he has reached his limits in gravity training, Goku seems to be honing his skills through mental training. Physical power has its limits, and it’s explicitly stated that Jiren has no difference in physical power compared to Goku and Vegeta.

If you couldn’t become a Super Saiyan, then you would only have a moderate level of strength, which is why Saiyans were more or less just kept by Frieza’s army.

I can’t help but think that Goku’s policy of reducing burden to increase the time he can fight with full power might be tied to a severe trauma from the Kaioken…

>>103

It was an idea stemming from personal experience, huh…

>>103

I think the fact that Frieza’s energy kept dropping due to the 100% recoil also has an effect.

Upon closer inspection, it’s a posing that doesn’t make sense.

>>104

They have a stance that can shoot beams while flying, so it might be efficient in that direction.

The Kaiōken’s ability to multiply without regard for strain is crazy…

It’s better for Vegeta to continue feeling the wall that cannot be crossed no matter what from here.

The Kaioken times 100 didn’t come out, though.

I wonder if it’s because my body falls apart that I can’t do it.

>>109

Well, I guess I would just die normally…

I just thought of something: if you become a Super Saiyan and then use Kaio-ken times two, wouldn’t your combat power increase tremendously?

>>112

It is explained that it can no longer be used because the body cannot handle it.

So in the game, Goku in normal mode fights with the Kaio-ken.

>>112

In the original work, it wasn’t used together, but I feel like they did in the super version.

Raditz is an average Saiyan?

In terms of final status, I believe Vegeta is greater than Goku.

In the original work, Vegeta was definitely self-taught, right?

I don’t know about Super.

The increase in strength of Frieza, Piccolo, and Gohan, who suddenly became much stronger with the enhancement patch to keep up with inflation, is incredible.

It suddenly grew, and although it has been strong since manufacturing, Gamma Beta Cell Max too.

It’s not just Gohan who’s experiencing strange increases to keep up with inflation.

Goku’s battle power has increased tremendously due to his recovery from the Ginyu fight.

It’s amazing that a sniper role for Frieza in the new block had to go through multiple selections, yet they were counter-sniped while being told how great they were at 2000.

The average of the Saiyans seems to be a bit lower.

Raditz has been reclassified as a mid-level warrior, so that’s about average or slightly above.

Half-Earthlings have amazing talent, but not liking combat is probably a good balance.

>>122

If you slack off in your training, your combat power drops drastically, so theoretically it’s the strongest category.

Chō had been fairly consistent for quite some time, so when I thought it was in line, DAIMA unexpectedly pulled away, which was nostalgic in a way.

Since Cui was a promising young talent, even the Frieza Force says that the average is about that.

Considering the strength of an average Saiyan, Vegeta is an incredible genius.