Ginyu doesn’t even have 100,000.

Wasn’t Ginyu around 120,000 or 150,000?

The only one with a power level higher than Great Ape Vegeta, excluding the Frieza clan, should be Dore.

>>3

Is Dole stronger than Souther?!

>>46

Souther became the leader because he is a balanced type.

Isn’t it too strong?

I have thought about whether Vegeta could have had quite a good fight against Frieza if he had been brought back to life by Dende and transformed into a Great Ape.

>>5

The answer to that is Goku’s Kaio-ken times ten.

The Great Ape Vegeta was that strong…

>>6

Because it’s ten times the fighting power.

But there’s a clear weakness: if the tail gets cut off, it’s over.

If it’s just cutting the tail, you don’t need that much power.

>>18

I mean, if I had 50,000, I should be at a level of strength that’s completely overwhelming, like Rikuum.

Goku’s last fart caused one eye to be injured, and Yajirobe’s sword cut off the tail.

It’s a bit too fragile for the numbers.

>>7

If anything, Vegeta doesn’t even need to be targeted directly; we can just destroy the moon or an artificial full moon instead…

>>23

I don’t know the hardness of the Power Ball’s moon, but if it’s Earth’s moon, even Master Roshi could blow it away… Thinking about that, the Great Ape really has a lot of weaknesses.

Toriyama said that he had the feeling that the Super Saiyan transformation was about ten times stronger.

That would mean that if Goku becomes a Great Ape, he can defeat Frieza.

>>10

It’s impossible, even the 20x Kaio-ken can’t reach even half of Frieza’s full power.

It’s out of the question to use both the Great Ape form and Kaioken together, as that’s just too far-fetched.

>>15

Well, when I saw the Super Blue Kaioken, I thought that buff was counted separately? So I guess if the Great Ape Kaioken comes out someday, it might be something like that.

>>16

The author probably assumed that they were using the Kaio-ken even in the powered-up state, right?

In the original work, there aren’t many numbers representing combat power.

>>10

I think you intended to use it in conjunction with the Kaioken.

It’s 120,000.

That said, I’m being looked down upon by Zabon Doria and being rivaled by Cui.

The number for combat power inflates, but isn’t there really not much advantage above the same level?

Because it’s troublesome to adjust when there is giant ape transformation.

In the Namek saga, there is a conversation at the beginning where they mention that Vegeta’s tail could not regenerate.

When he transformed into a Great Ape, Zarbon and Dodoria were probably nothing more than trash, which might explain why Vegeta was so arrogant.

The power levels in Dragon Ball are quite arbitrary.

Despite the huge disparity, Goku, who doesn’t use the Kaio-ken, is not instantly killed by Vegeta.

When looking at the ratio, there is less difference than with the original Goku, yet Kui instantly becomes a dirty firework.

Even Nappa can defeat Transforming Zarbon if he transforms into a Great Ape.

I can’t beat Nail.

Kaioken = Double the battle power

That premise is pretty strange too.

Combat power = absolute strength

That’s actually pretty funny.

>>25

Even though there was about a tenfold difference, Vegeta still lost to Goku and the others.

>>26

Goku and the others’ combat power inexplicably skyrockets only when they use their techniques.

The strength of jumps is generally quite inconsistent.

The only exception might be the late-stage tuna where the focus was on the setting rather than the excitement in the story, leading to a bland development.

Considering the reversal in the Frieza battle, I hope the transformation has about 100 times the power.

>>29

Since it dealt damage equivalent to half the fighting strength at 20 times, it is officially stated to be around 50 times, exceeding 40 times.

This also lacks credibility, but I guess it’s the result of aligning the official numbers.

Wasn’t the combat power 180,000 at that time?

Even with a 10x Kaio-ken, Goku can’t catch up.

When using the image from the thread, my combat power is considerably reduced due to the damage from the Kaio-ken times four Kamehameha and the exhaustion from creating Power Balls.

>>32

I don’t think the ratio will change much since Goku is pretty exhausted from using the Kaioken.

It gives the impression of being less maneuverable when eyes are gouged out, and the tail can be cut relatively easily as well.

It would have been bad if Yajirobe hadn’t been there.

The idea that transformations or Frieza’s battle power is 100 million doesn’t really register for me.

The setting of about 5 million in Super Saiyan Legend feels just right.

If you think that once someone becomes a Great Ape they can’t be faced by anyone other than Frieza, it makes sense that Frieza is wary of the Saiyans.

>>35

What they were really wary of was the possibility of a group going wild like monkeys.

Excluding the legend of the Super Saiyan, then.

The combat jacket is too stretched out 😂

Even with a flimsy setting, it has such momentum and fun that it doesn’t matter!

It’s frustrating that Guldo seems able to easily cut off his tail.

>>39

That guy is definitely a Saiyan specialist.

A difference in combat power of ten or a hundred times can be overturned with skill.

Normally, it seems like it would tear from the damaged area, but it’s definitely a body armor that is essential as a symbol of the Great Ape Vegeta.

Wasn’t Vegeta’s battle power undecided around this time?

The clear number of 18,000 was revealed in the Namek Saga.

>>42

I think there was a set number for how many times the Kaioken multiplies to surpass it.

Otherwise, there would be no point in producing a number for combat power.

Even if you’re a bit lazy, Goku can still get hit by a bullet.

There is a huge difference in defense depending on whether I’m motivated or not… Also, no matter how much time passes, the Kachin steel is still strong.

The big monkey gets its tail cut off and is defeated immediately.

I think that when a body grows larger and bigger, having ten times the size will still put you at a considerable disadvantage when fighting an opponent with equal combat power.

It might be convenient to grow bigger if it means bullying the weak.

When we’re together, Nappa loses his rationality, so it’s quite difficult to find a proper use for him.

As expected, it’s not ten times ten times the Kaio-ken.

>>50

One hundred times the strength of the raw power is stronger than fifty times!

>>64

It’s said that Super Saiyan is about 50 times stronger, but it feels more like 10 times… that’s what they’re saying.

It’s just a normal sense of ten times, you know.

>>76

Well, it’s contradictory when you think about the setting, but if Super Saiyan is 50 times stronger, then how weak would base Goku be? I get how you feel.

It seems that there’s a discussion about how even in Ultra form, one should still be strong in their base state, and there’s a feeling that Toriyama’s ideal of transforming to become 50 or 100 times stronger is kind of lame, right?

I feel like the mech squad had higher combat power than the special forces due to having fewer members.

As much as the total of everyone is exactly equal.

>>51

Each person is stronger than Ginyu.

Everyone has around several hundred thousand.

Only Freeza is not a problem, but if the Saiyans all transform into Great Apes and rebel, the Freeza Army would be annihilated.

>>52

Isn’t it likely that they’ll be wiped out by friendly fire first?

Even in a thread image, it’s a fair fight or better, so the Great Ape might not be that advantageous in a one-on-one situation.

(That combat outfit) W-What the hell is going on?!

>>55

This thing stretches endlessly when pulled, and it didn’t tear even when I became a giant ape on Earth. However, it’s quite strong against shocks! By the way, I prefer the old model; it fits me better.

After blinding them with the Solar Flare, I thought I could hide in the mountains and create a Spirit Bomb… but if the Galick Gun is fired at Earth again, that would be a problem…

The big ape often ends up with its tail ripped off by those fast ones like Burta.

If I think about the possibility of being exhausted by the Powerball and then having my artificial moon destroyed or my tail cut off, it becomes a losing scenario.

Beerus was saying, “Did you really defeat Frieza?”

The base Goku probably doesn’t even have a battle power of 530,000.

Frieza has never shown his second form or above to anyone.

>>60

It seems like they would know about Frieza’s transformations, and Vegeta can probably compete a little with Frieza’s final form, so it should be in the millions.

Showing this transformation is the first time for you, but I don’t think it really counts against the enemy or your parents.

It’s incredibly trivial, but while the special forces team is the Ginyu Force, the armored squad is not the Souther Armored Squad, but the Cooler Armored Squad.

>>63

I think it’s because Cooler is leading directly.

What’s strange is how Ginyu and Zarbon are constantly mocking Vegeta.

There’s such a huge gap in strength that I could be killed instantly if I became a monkey, yet they could mock me like that.

It seems unlikely that they don’t know about transformation.

>>67

As mentioned above, a transformation that can be forcibly undone by others probably isn’t worth considering for a certain level of strong individuals.

>>67

If it’s not a place where the moon is visible, then stopping the Power Ball means it’s over.

I think it’s a type that allocates almost all of its combat power status to strength, with a value of 100,000.

I mean, it seems like the power ball will drop considerably.

>>69

Mukinks probably has quite high combat power, huh…

>>74

Even if you have high combat power, it doesn’t mean you can win the battle, huh?

>>69

If it were a proper stat allocation, considering the difference in power level between Gohan and Krillin at that point, the speed difference would likely be so great that you wouldn’t even be able to see the movements. But despite being big, it was still fast enough to get by!

The moon in this world is soft like a fool, and its tail is so weak that it can be cut with a sword, so defending while fighting is just too tough.

If he puts his mind to it, he could defeat Dodoria in an instant, but Zarbon is being kind by treating him as an equal.

>>73

It’s probably humiliating to show that form, since it’s treated better than dying.

Does Zabon’s transformation increase his combat power by about doubling it?

>>77

Stronger than 24000 and weaker than 30000.

Vegeta, who defeated Cui, easily knocked him down with around 24,000.

I think it will power up to around 30,000 to 40,000.

Zabon’s transformation is a bit lame…

>>80

Frieza’s transformation is on another level of strange.

Also, super evolution.

>>83

The change in battle power of the Kaioken as well…

Even if only a few geniuses can use it, it effortlessly doubles combat power!

The fact that God, at 60% of Beerus’s strength, still can’t surpass Beerus even with Blue or Ultra Instinct shows that the Great Ape, which can power up 10 times more easily, is truly strong.

I guess King Cold was able to take on a form similar to Frieza’s final form.

At the point where Goku is able to escape to some extent from the Great Ape Vegeta, the speed is…

I don’t really feel like it’s risen that much.

Goku takes a direct hit from a beam with a combat power of 180,000 and says, “The Spirit Bomb I worked so hard to create…” with that level of damage.

The Great Ape Vegeta at Sparking Zero was too strong and it was tough.

Zarbon’s transformation increase is low, but in terms of battle content, his speed is also up.

It doesn’t have weaknesses like a tail, and it doesn’t need conditions like the moon…

Goku’s increase in combat power during the Namek saga is too overpowered.

The ones who trained with King Kai can’t use the Kaio-ken except for Goku, so I wonder if it’s really that difficult.

>>93

I don’t think Piccolo and the others trained at King Kai’s for even two months in total.

>>93

Even if I remember, it’s a pain to have to say Kaio-ken every time…

>>97

Even the 10 times declaration effect is gone.

In fact, it’s not strange to think that I was holding back Cell with a fourfold Kaio-ken Spirit Bomb without saying anything.

Well, it’s a technique that even the instructors haven’t mastered.

I feel like Krillin could manage if he were taught… He was able to create a Spirit Bomb.

King Kai is just an Air Player when it comes to the Kaio-ken and Spirit Bomb…

Fusion had various possibilities.

…somehow not used

>>100

I don’t really like combination warriors…

The giant ape transformation is dangerous, but the near-death power-up is way too intense.

Vegeta, who tells me to half-kill him…

If he wasn’t blended with the nails, Piccolo would have been beaten to a pulp by Frieza’s second form.

Only Gohan has a depiction of a tail in his half-form, but I wonder if the others were cut or if they never had one…

>>104

Perhaps trunks didn’t originally exist.

Chaozu and Tien have been on King Kai’s planet longer than Goku, and Tien probably learned the Kaioken.

I wonder if Nappa doesn’t have hair even when he transforms into a Great Ape.

>>107

Even if Totepo turns into a Great Ape, it’s normal, so maybe the Great Ape transformation comes with hair growing unconditionally.

>>108

I’m glad…

At that time, Vegeta was in terrible condition and had significantly reduced his energy with the Power Ball…

>>109

If you say that, Goku is also in bad shape from using the Kaio-ken x4…

Gohan might be absorbing Great Ape power like Broly in a beast-like manner.

The Saiyans are so dangerous that Frieza will massacre everyone along with the planet.

Given Piccolo’s personality, it doesn’t seem likely that he would bother to shout when mastering the Kaio-ken.

In other words, if Goku is weakened while using Kaio-ken (unable to defeat at 20 times, at most 10 times), then even that 5 times would do.

It won’t increase by 50 times.

It was just that, in terms of story development, I felt like it was about ten times more.

Or could it be that Goku’s base power has multiplied several times and on top of that, the transformation is ten times stronger?

According to the official numbers, Goku’s power level was 3 million during the Frieza battle, and when he transforms into a Super Saiyan, it becomes 150 million.

In terms of portrayal, at the point of waiting and observing, he is already higher than Vegeta by deflecting the Death Beam.

Isn’t it simply a matter of how it was depicted in the script that they said it was ten times, though I don’t really understand the context?

For example, the Kaioken at 4 times seems to really be depicted as four times stronger, but if they said that the 10 times was actually intended to be like a 2 times enhancement in terms of depiction, I could see that being the case…

It becomes that way when you consider consistency, but the jump in Frieza’s battle power from his transformation at 3 to his final form is just too much…

There was a depiction where even the super god water seems to draw out the great ape’s abilities.