Even Trunks in the main story became a Super Saiyan faster than the little one.

Trunks was surprised by Vegeta’s strength in the fight against Android 18, so it’s not strange that he could already be stronger than Future Android 17 and 18 at that point.

The twist is that the androids of the future were actually more than twice as strong.

I think Trunks is just mistaken.

>>3

Past android damage doesn’t count!? That’s why there’s clearly a difference.

>>4

In the future, there has never been damage other than the last one, right?

>>5

It looks like damage is already taking place at this point in the thread image…

>>10

If you’re going to say that, you should go back and review the lines that Trunks said in the main story.

It’s a sports story, but since everyone trains to become the strongest, it feels like there’s a shared limit.

You say you were just playing around, but you’re weak enough to be a decent match.

Why have Future Androids 17 and 18 become such bad guys?

>>12

Did Dr. Gero lower the power to make it easier to manipulate and adjust the malice?

I mean, 17 is on par with the God of Destruction.

I’m handling the Z Warriors with almost one punch without going all out.

A past where I didn’t give it my all and it wasn’t a contest > A future where I don’t give it my all but it will be a contest.

It is.

>>13

I’m not putting in full effort, but I don’t even know what percentage of full power I’m at, so it can’t be compared.

It seems that there are cases where the power drops enough to control one’s personality, so it might be a bit weak.

Because he has a bad personality and keeps underestimating others, Gohan got the wrong idea, and there’s no guarantee that Trunks’ assessment is correct.

I think Gohan simply has a tough time with the one-armed debuff.

It is said that even in the battle with the cells, just losing one arm greatly weakens them.

>>19

That’s because it was damaged.

The storyline is that Gohan was misunderstanding things right up until his death, so it’s a discussion about how Trunks might also be misunderstanding things, right?

>>24

If you think that’s smart to say, you’ll just end up embarrassing yourself, so it’s better not to do that kind of thing outside of manga topics.

That one-sidedly strong android hasn’t even shown its true power yet.

The assessment of Trunks is generally correct, right?

The future Trunks has a good match against the androids 1/2.

In the future, Trunks is completely helpless against the androids from the past.

And it’s confirmed that Number 17 is at a level where he can go head-to-head with the God of Destruction, so he was holding back.

I wonder why they think that neither the future nor the past will change because of this.

I wonder if Future Trunks ultimately surpasses Super Saiyan God.

>>30

The strength of Cell Jr. is on the same level as Super Vegeta after one more year of training.

Because it can compete well with that, it’s not even a match for things like God Koro.

It’s a weakling that can’t even deal damage to the first form cell.

>>30

There’s no doubt that Vegeta is saying that he is as strong as me, based on the battle with Cell Junior.

>>30

The strength is at a level beyond even Super Vegeta, so it cannot be compared at all.

If Trunks is as strong as Future Gohan, it would be less than half, so I can play around, and I can’t see through their strength either.

If Trunks is twice as strong as Future Gohan, then there’s no doubt about what you’re saying, but wasn’t the difference not that much?

>>32

Just go reread the main story already.

I can surpass you soon, Piccolo…

>>35

Ultimately, I’m going to fight Cell Junior and since they have consciousness, they’ve become strong like Super Vegeta.

The final episode of the original work and the point when Future Trunks first traveled to the past are almost in the same time frame, so that’s quite a difference.

When I see the evilness of 17 and 18 from the future world, I realize that the characters’ personalities are quite different due to parallel worlds, which allows my imagination to expand in various ways.

>>39

I like the slightly rough vibe of Future Gohan.

The modern Chibi is weaker than Future Trunks.

>>41

It’s a really delicate line, isn’t it?

Even if I’m rotten, I’m training in the Room of Spirit and Time.

>>44

The fact that even before training, I have a level of energy that makes God Koro uneasy is the source of confusion.

Maybe the reason the tech tree for the vomit (Gero) didn’t grow is because we didn’t make version 16.

Even though we were playing, the past androids, who were overwhelmingly strong, ended up feeling one-sidedly defeated without even forming a proper match.

I wonder why I think the strength of the future and the past doesn’t change.

If you’re just playing around, then future androids that are meant to compete are nothing but weaklings.

Vegeta, who was unilaterally beaten by Number 18, is probably stronger than Trunks.

>>45

Dad is this strong… I was scared.

It’s one thing to think like that myself.

Once you start belittling others’ thoughts, it’s all over.

The assessment of Trunks is the same; no matter how much he has grown, he was instantly defeated by the returning Trunks, so I wonder how he got the mistaken idea that the future one is stronger.

>>48

Even modern androids can be instantly defeated by the trunks when it’s time to go home…

>>50

What the hell are you saying?

>>48

Considering the degree of muscle expansion, it hasn’t turned into super trunks.

It’s being completely obliterated by a normal super transformation.

>>48

No one has said that the future is stronger, right?

In reality, when someone unlocks the level cap, it’s possible for others around them to follow suit, and it’s not surprising if similar things happen within the main story timeline as well…

Trunks’ final strength is overwhelmingly stronger than Android 17, so he would definitely defeat him in an instant, whether it’s the modern version or not.

It’s not a place where strength can be judged.

If you call the future android a piece of junk, it’s really unfair to Future Gohan, so it’s better to keep it as close as possible.

If you say that the strength of the main story’s timeline and the future is about the same, then I can understand that.

It would be strange if the strength were to change.

>>57

So it’s strange… isn’t it that Trunks is also confused in the main story?

Even if there is a gap between the present and the future, from Trunks’ perspective at the end of the Cell Saga, they’re all weaklings anyway, so doesn’t it not matter?

It’s not strange at all that the strength varies between the future and the past because Gero can adjust the power.

Because they wouldn’t listen, the result of reducing the power was the creation of Android 19.

>>60

It is clearly explained that the power reduction was changed from permanent type to absorptive type.

>>64

So it’s not strange to adjust the power down to 1718.

It’s explicitly stated that Android 18 is weaker than Android 17 because Cell lowered her power.

>>68

There was no explanation in the original work, but where was it?

>>69

I think this was featured as a cover illustration in a paperback or something.

>>78

Don’t give me vague memories, show me that cover illustration.

>>89

Check it yourself.

I’m not your mom.

>>89

That’s where you produce the source, right?

I think the differences in the cruelty and combat abilities of androids are partly due to the changes caused by Trunks and Cell’s interventions in the past.

At an early stage, the fact that his friends were killed one after another and that Trunks was still young and unable to sharpen his skills was probably a big factor for Gohan.

The Cell Saga seems to have a huge inflation in strength since it was filled with characters that are stronger than XX, regardless of the numerical values.

If enough energy isn’t gathered after this, Buu won’t be able to be revived either.

The final boss in the battle against Babidi’s group turned out to be Dabra.

When Cell in his first form appears, his strength is quite different after gathering energy with such overwhelming power…

I like that Future Gohan has a sadness about him, as if he has missed the opportunities to get truly angry.

If you calculate backwards from Pan’s age, it seems that Future Trunks’ Gohan and the Gohan who died in the future world are about the same age, but it’s unclear whether that was intentionally thought out or just a coincidence.

Considering that Goku and the others assumed that even Number 19 and Number 20 wouldn’t grow much more due to their age, they may actually be overspec’d.

The future is much weaker, and it feels like I’m kicking a dead body, so I can’t blame the anime for glorifying Future Gohan.

After forcibly stopping and altering their personalities, is what we see in Android 17 and 18 their true nature?

The S cells are quite convincing even among the later additions, aren’t they?

I had the impression that the main story was set in a world that became wildly inflated due to something.

As the conversation continues, the world itself is experiencing inflation.

I feel stronger that it’s more fitting to think the future is unfairly dull…

Considering Gohan’s growth rate, Goku is a genius at training, isn’t he?

>>77

In the main story, the sense is pure Saiyan, and the potential is a mix with Earthlings.

The key is probably training with my dad.

Future Trunks, who has surpassed his father, was able to reach that point because he was able to train with his dad.

>>77

Gohan, who couldn’t even become a Super Saiyan, becomes strong enough in one year to completely surpass Super Vegeta and Cell, so Goku is really good at teaching.

Because they were just small fry who played around by tormenting ordinary people on Earth, the King Kai and others had no involvement.

>>81

In terms of what they were doing, Frieza, who invaded and plundered the stars throughout the universe, was far more dangerous and feared by the Kais.

It’s interesting that when it comes to strength alone, the artificially created beings confined to Earth are overwhelmingly superior.

It seems like I won’t go into outer space either.

I’m curious about what would happen in a timeline where Trunks and Cell don’t come from the future, and Goku doesn’t have heart disease.

>>82

No matter what I do, I’m stuck with Dabra.

Because they lost to the androids, Goku and Vegeta came up with the idea of surpassing the Super Saiyan barrier, so without that, they would only remain as regular Super Saiyans.

If Trunks had been killed, Future Gohan would have become Super Saiyan 2 and that would have been the end…

>>83

It’s not like I’m used to Piccolo and everyone being killed, so it’s impossible.

>>83

I don’t think I have the skill to become a Super 2, and I also feel like I haven’t accumulated any S cells.

>>83

I think they get angry but can’t become Super Saiyan 2, fight valiantly for a bit, and in the end, they get killed.

If you’re not strong to some extent, you can’t rise to the top, as it’s said in the story.

Goku and others finally became Super Saiyan 2 after training hard.

The idea of surpassing the wall of Super Saiyan would be absolutely impossible for Gohan alone.

>>88

Only Goku and Vegeta were considering what comes next.

Pure-blooded Saiyans have better instincts.

It will become a ceiling soon.

He’s weak, but he’s cool, isn’t he… Future Gohan…

The coolness includes the fleetingness of being defeated so easily…

If Trunks hadn’t come, does that mean that the members took down Frieza and King Cold? Isn’t that amazing?

>>93

It may seem like he won’t make it in time, but at that point, Son Goku has already mastered Instant Transmission.

>>93

I defeated that member, or rather, just Goku alone.

>>93

Didn’t Goku say he would have defeated them if it were the original history!?

Well, originally the opponents that Trunks fought were supposed to be Androids 19 and 20, so it makes sense that in the future, he encountered the much stronger 17 and 18, but it can’t be helped that this creates inconsistencies…

Why is Serjunior able to come out so casually and be that strong? It’s strange, isn’t it?

>>97

The Great Demon King must have been able to spawn children with more than half of his own strength, right?

It’s not surprising if cells can do similar things.

>>97

That is a test-breaking tile.

If Goku is worn out, Vegeta will unilaterally beat him down.

When you become Super 2, you can mince Super Vegeta in one punch.

I love the relationship between present Gohan and future Trunks where they speak to each other using honorifics.

Future Gohan Beast…

I wonder what happened to future issues 19 (20?) and 20 (21?) (Gero).

>>107

Being killed by No. 17 and No. 18 is the same.

In fact, it is unclear whether No. 19 has been born or not.

Unlike Goku, who has undergone various training, Future Gohan only knows the Piccolo style and it’s tough for him to become strong on his own.

What kind of issues were there with numbers 13 to 15?

It didn’t seem to be a problem in the movie, especially.

>>115

Don’t take events from old movies seriously.

I like the theory of Geros when model 13 was young.

I’ve been failing in terms of personality all along.

>>118

Only No. 19 was faithful.

>>118

If you make it too strong, it’s difficult to adjust, right?

But as a scientist, I want to push it to the very limit.

Although Android 17 is an artificial human, the idea that he could become stronger with training because his base is human is unique to the original creator.

>>119

There seems to be a trend where this kind of joke could also work with other characters thanks to Resurrection ‘F’.

It’s painful that Cell, a lump of talent, died there.

>>120

Thinking about it now, having both Frieza’s cells and Saiyan cells is just insane.

>>124

Also, some creepy cells that regenerate or lay eggs.

Well, since the last strong enemy to come to Earth was Vegeta, if we could create an Android 19 that is on the same level as Frieza’s final form, that would be the finishing touch…

>>121

I’m also collecting cells from Frieza and his son.

>>126

That’s something that the computer did automatically, and the recognition of Gero has stopped at the Vegeta fight.

>>121

10,000 times is an exaggeration.

Gohan had become much stronger than Goku and Super Vegeta during his training in the Room of Spirit and Time, so training is really important.

If Cell trains, he would probably grow normally.

>>125

I think if it has successfully cultured normally, it would probably reach a growth similar to Cellmax.

The 19th model might not look great, but it’s reliable and reasonably strong, so it would have been fine to mass-produce it.

>>130

The problem is why it was made to look like that.

>>132

The model of No. 19 is a doll that used to be displayed in the command room of a base belonging to a faction that was once opposed to the Red Ribbon Army.

It seems that Geru remembered that the doll was among the spoils when the Red Ribbon Army was destroyed, which is why it was used as a model for its appearance.

One of the mysterious settings created by Akira Toriyama in his later years.

People often say that Gohan should train hard, but it’s Future Gohan who trained a lot.

It’s useless to train alone.

Is the future world a result of Gero’s forced personality adjustments on Androids 17 and 18 failing?

Future Gohan doesn’t seem to have any time to rest, so his S cells probably won’t increase either…

>>134

I haven’t even done basic training in the Room of Spirit and Time.

The future world has a poor environment for securing food and for training.

It seems like No. 16 wouldn’t listen to orders like “conquer the world.”

>>139

Accepting the order to take care of Son Goku means you must be quite confident.

>>150

Isn’t it the case that not attacking Son Goku first during the Cell Games means they aren’t really accepting it?

I just won’t get too familiar.

Isn’t Dr. Head amazing for consistently establishing the hero spirit?

The foreshadowing of only Gero being made mechanical in 19 was not revealed.

>>141

Because even the head of No. 19 had become a machine.

Maybe I really wanted to make it a completely obedient type after all.

I’ve failed consecutively with 16, 17, and 18.

>>141

No. 16 is also mechanical.

>>141

“Not just the 19th model being mechanical.”

There is technology that can be completely machine-made, so why did they revert to human-based for only the 17th and 18th models? → It was to use them as material for Cells.

>>156

Furthermore, if we include GT and Heroes, Cell also becomes the material for Hell Fighter 17.

I don’t know about the added settings, though.

If there wasn’t a period to be able to live daily life in the Super Saiyan state.

Even if I get seriously angry, I probably don’t have a body that can become Super 2.

Goku died of heart disease, but looking at the Jaco setting, Saiyans have strong virus resistance.

It just happened to be a critical hit.

>>146

First of all, what even is a viral heart disease? It sounds like something unbelievable…

Gero may have been strong in hardware development but was perhaps a little weak in the software aspect.

I think the purpose of creating No. 19 was because there was a need for a being that could carry out the modification work for the clone.

Strength comes after number two.

What came to mind first was this.

The 19 model is the latest in terms of year, but its combat capability has significantly dropped.

Still, you wanted someone who would be loyal to orders, didn’t you?

In other words, it was Android 19 who modified Gero, so if he doesn’t listen, it wouldn’t be a joke.

It’s amazing that Number 19 feels fear even though it’s a machine.

Goku’s annihilation feels like some sort of instinct.

It seems like input is being received, but…

There are many things to consider regarding androids, but I also think that they probably haven’t thought about a particular correct answer.

I like how Future Gohan resisted at the end with a Kamehameha in the Future Trunks DLC for Kakarot, in a way that shows a lack of human emotion.

In terms of personality, it has already failed since number 8.

It’s amazing that they continued to develop for about 20 years without ever achieving success.

Of course, they must have contributed to the Red Ribbon Army in other ways.

Well, if the androids in the main story were weaker, Trunks would defeat them and the story would end.

It’s sad that this is Gohan’s limit on his own.

I can’t agree at all with the idea that one doesn’t grow in harsh environments.

>>167

It’s not that the environment is as harsh as the Room of Spirit and Time.

>>167

Overworking is a common understanding in current training that it doesn’t lead to growth.

If you can’t properly relax due to fighting androids, then there’s no way you can become stronger.

You can’t expect to become strong in an environment where you’re just being oppressed unilaterally.

Even Goku couldn’t become stronger in such an environment.

>>169

Even Master Roshi teaches that if you want to get stronger, you should rest well.