For a while, it was said that Vegeta was trying harder and Goku had more talent, but after thinking it over, I realize that Goku is really a hard worker.

By the way, Goku is sometimes considered a rare genius.

>>1

I think Goku is the very embodiment of a genius of hard work.

The talent itself is considerably lower than that of Krillin and Tien, let alone Vegeta.

They’re diligent enough to acquire various skills that may or may not be related to combat, and they can quickly close the gap with someone like Gohan or Frieza.

Well, I don’t think I’m on the genius side.

>>3

Typically, Goku is the first to break the level cap, but after that, he easily falls behind.

A Saiyan can become infinitely stronger if they face death in a rich environment, can’t they?

>>6

Near-death power-ups have their limits.

In a rich environment, one can survive without much training, so it might be tough.

Whether or not there is a mentor who can help develop talent is indeed significant.

Goku is a genius of effort.

Vegeta is a genius whose extraordinary talent compensates for his clumsy efforts.

Well, in the second half, Vegeta isn’t that clumsy with effort, and Goku feels like a genius at extending trees.

>>8

If we start training together at Ultra level…

While he himself may not match the genius of Vegeta,

It feels like it’s a culmination of the various people I’ve studied under up until now.

When comparing the training of Vegeta and Goku, it’s true that Goku is undergoing much tougher training.

>>9

In the Buu Saga, it’s 300 times gravity and 40 tons.

It’s just that Goku’s is tougher.

Depending on the situation, Goku is sometimes treated as a genius and sometimes as a failure, right?

It’s true that they’re hardworking, but…

It’s like having a combat power that’s almost useless by Saiyan standards…

Despite having fought fiercely and learned from the greatest masters on Earth, I am far weaker than my cowardly older brother.

If you say today that you have talent or ability, you’ll end up on the level of Broly or Gohan.

Goku learned various training techniques from different masters and became self-taught, but Vegeta was always alone.

>>17

I think Vegeta didn’t even have the idea of training until he came to Earth.

If we’re just talking about talent, there’s no doubt that Vegeta is the genius.

Goku is learning from his master, but Vegeta becomes stronger solely based on his own ideas throughout the main story.

I think that even if a second-string character catches up later, they are still a genius.

>>19

When it comes to removing level caps and extending skill trees, there’s no doubt that Goku is at the top.

However, in terms of innate ability, I wasn’t that fortunate, so those who come later are smoother than Goku.

>>19

To be honest, I was barely able to keep up until Krillin and Namek, but that’s as far as I can go, so it’s pretty hopeless to overturn the disparity of origins.

>>27

I think the reason is that I stopped being so eager to just stay at the front line.

To become a Super Saiyan.

Goku finally pulls the last trigger with near-death power leveling during the journey, near-death power-up from the battle with Ginyu, and Krillin’s death.

Vegeta just ended up hurting himself carelessly and felt really frustrated, you know…

>>20

As for Gohan, he imagined that Dad and Piccolo were killed by Cell…

I think the root is a martial artist.

I’ve been training intensely.

That’s right, things like the Ki Circle Slash, the New Ki Cannon, and the Ki Bomb are all original techniques.

On top of that, the first two have been enhanced to the point where they can target large prey solo.

Goku doesn’t have that kind of thing on his own.

I think Goku will remember anything if he finds it interesting.

Forget about teleportation for a moment, but what were you planning to use fusion for in the beginning?

>>30

I think I was just doing it because it’s simply amazing, so tell me!

Since I had already basically decided to be a resident of the afterlife, I thought it would be good to convey a method that could serve as a trump card in case of emergency.

That’s something… Lord Beerus said that Goku can be called a rare genius.

Krillin has the creativity to develop new techniques like the Kienzan and the Spread Kamehameha.

Piccolo is not limited to things like Maku Kōbōdan or Kidan Kikōha, but instead changes their use to prepare new techniques.

It’s just a different output, but it’s Vegeta who comes up with a fancy name and presents it as a new technique.

Goku is not one to create new techniques himself, but he creatively combines the abundant cards he gained from his training under others.

I wonder if Goku is also good at teaching.

I don’t have enough words for my son.

>>33

Rather, he was incredibly good at teaching even to Gohan and used enough words.

So I explained that it’s not acceptable to just transform with bulging muscles; we need to train from scratch to make superhuman status a normal condition.

The reason I didn’t explain it in advance is because the Cell Games were based on the assumption that Gohan would get angry.

>>42

People often talk about Piccolo’s thing, but no matter what Goku does, he can’t beat Cell, so I can only hope that Gohan, who has become the strongest among the Z fighters, will explode even more…

It’s amazing that everyone becomes at least Raditz class after just one year of training…

The later ones become stronger at a high pace through the same training.

If that’s not the case, I feel like it’s a meta situation that wouldn’t be of any use as a fighting force.

That being said, it’s being depicted that way, but somehow…

Geniuses and hard workers can coexist, right?

I like the Blue Kaio-ken because I enjoy applying the skills I’ve acquired so far.

>>37

I really love effects.

Imitating human skill can be done immediately by just looking, and that’s genius.

The type that becomes strong in response to the strength of those around them.

Son Gohan (grandpa)

Master Roshi

Lady Karin

God

(Mr. Butaito)

King Kai

Yardratian

Metamorph alien

(Grand Kai)

Whis (Lord Beerus)

Who else could be my master…

When using the Spirit Bomb, there are also mysterious skills like telepathy suddenly happening, touching Krillin’s head to read memories, and grasping events in dreams.

>>44

I wonder if I was taught that by God.

>>44

Telepathy is commonly used in the Tsurusenryu, so it’s likely that there are some teachings from the turtle via Master Butaitou, and somehow they probably grasped the knack for it.

I think memory reading also comes from Grandpa Turtle.

It may be convenient that Krillin can’t do it, but Goku’s mentality was probably suited for something telepathic.

Piccolo said that he is too sweet to be a master, but in fact, he is really suited to be a master, isn’t he, Goku?

I’m definitely putting in the effort, but a significant power-up mostly comes from events.

>>47

Isn’t the only significant power-up in a single event before the Frieza fight the near-death power-up, transformation into a Super Saiyan, and God form?

I think I was practicing properly afterward.

Gohan also gives advice to Goten and Trunks and helps them fight effectively against enemies.

They are quite good at teaching.

It’s clever to sneakily steal strong techniques like the Solar Flare or the Spirit Slash, isn’t it?

Goku is now often seen as a hard worker character, but for a long time, he was treated like a slacker.

>>50

Is that talk about not working?

>>52

No, no.

The setting of the Saiyans was treated like a cheat in today’s isekai genre.

What is up with Gohan getting super strong just by getting angry…?

>>51

A Saiyan half-breed full of talent.

When Saiyan and Earthling blood mix, they become incredibly strong.

Gohan has been fighting from a young age because of that…

It’s true that the initial combat power was garbage, but those numbers become insignificant.

Gohan has top talent, but his fighting style tends to rely on sheer power.

>>57

Therefore, since it can win, that is also correct.

There is evidence that when Saiyans breathe the air on Earth, they become incredibly strong.

The two guys who died shortly after coming to Earth are no good.

Did Nappa and Raditz die before they became stronger?

I think what’s amazing about Vegeta is that he continued to pursue Goku’s growth alone after the Android saga.

>>61

Vegeta had the talent to watch an example and imitate it.

In the end, isn’t Dragon Ball the strongest work where overwhelming power crushes everything rather than clever tactics?

>>63

Since becoming Ultra, the focus has shifted back to combat techniques, including selfishness and Jiren.

…Power itself is Broly and the Beast has come out.

>>68

It’s insane to treat selfishness and dilemmas as technical matters…

It’s not just about instant power or moments of aggression; there’s a toughness and strength that can’t be explained.

>>78

Even if it’s called unreasonable, Vegeta explained it that way in SH and Whis acknowledged it, right?

Selfishness is a combat technique of the angelic realm, and if Jiren could no longer maintain that power, his overwhelming strength would also vanish.

The high ability to absorb things, quietly learning some kind of incomprehensible special skills.

Vegeta couldn’t transform into a Super Saiyan 2 by himself in the original source, right?

>>66

There’s no way that’s possible.

>>66

You can get used to it, but doesn’t it feel like there’s still a gap between you and Goku, even if you’re both at the same level?

>>66

It’s kind of delicate around there.

As long as Dabura is treated as insignificant, it’s not strange for him to reach Super Saiyan 2.

Goku has a high talent for being a pioneer in reaching the next stage.

If they understand that such a stage exists, there are definitely those who will come closer in a shorter amount of time.

I think I could have become a Super Saiyan 2 without becoming Babidi’s subordinate.

I watched Gohan when he was a kid.

Vegeta’s growth since meeting Goku has been incredible, so I think if he had met his master, he would have surpassed Goku.

Got it, Nappa?

It feels like the potential was always there, but it’s being properly awakened through effort.

Vegeta, who was sleeping in a pod on Namek, and Goku, who was recovering with a senzu bean and training on a spaceship, have a significant difference in their abilities…

>>76

Gravity training is the best!

Sometimes I’ll just take a big sleep…

You don’t understand anything.

That overwhelmingly strong Jiren… Actually, his power isn’t that much greater than ours.

>>80

It felt like they were overwhelming both offense and defense…

>>89

This guy is ridiculously strong despite having a weak backstory…

>>89

There’s absolutely no waste in the way power is used. Did you notice that?

He relaxes both his body and mind, except for brief moments when he attacks during the battle.

An attack from zero doesn’t allow the opponent to read your movements and has great explosive power.

And you can also conserve stamina.

Jiren can probably do it instinctively.

Vegeta didn’t have a master, after all.

Especially since he doesn’t transform, but in the final episode, doesn’t Vegeta also become Super Saiyan 3?

Since it’s a high-intensity SS at the end, you should be able to become a 2, Vegeta.

Goku was strong because he is a Saiyan, but compared to other Saiyans, this guy struggles way too much against Earthlings despite being a Saiyan…

>>85

Well, since I’m a dropout… I was supposed to have low combat power and was sent to Earth, but it’s the fault of those strong artificial humans created by a few sages, Namekians, and scientists.

>>111

It was lucky that the Namekians had split and became just strong enough to be defeated.

There was a genius child of the Dragon Clan who couldn’t be defeated even by Vegeta.

After a bit of training, when he removed the angels, Frieza-sama became the strongest in the series and is the greatest genius.

In the SFC’s Super Saiyan Legend, there are times when gravity training on a spaceship can lead to death.

Isn’t it too easy for Vegeta to train under 300 times gravity after the training Goku did at 100 times gravity on Namek?

Isn’t the Earth’s air actually nourishing the Saiyans?

Yeah, but Goku was seriously weak even when he became a young man…

When I think about it, dying once and then coming back strong with the Dragon Balls…

In terms of temporarily interrupting one’s life, it doesn’t directly correlate with the individual’s strength itself.

Goku is supposed to power up even when he’s close to death on Earth.

Even with the added training, I’ve only just managed to reach a combat power of a little over 400, so it really seems like I have no talent among the Saiyans.

>>93

Well, that’s why I was sent to a weak little Earth and forgotten.

Even so, that weakness must be at a level that is hard to believe even for Raditz and the others.

The way to use that power is to be isolated in both offense and defense.

Since it can reach full power without any preparatory actions, it is difficult to prevent it.

It’s something that can convert power into strength without any loss.

There is an image of Vegeta that solely focuses on gravity training.

I think Goku is an incredibly late bloomer by normal Saiyan standards.

On the contrary, it’s bizarre that Gohan fought against Frieza at a single-digit age and defeated Cell at 10 years old.

>>97

Trunks and Goten are incredibly talented considering their age, but the adults are just too strong.

Vegeta may be an elite, but when it comes to being called a genius, the image of Gohan or Broly comes to mind first.

>>98

Broly is not a genius, he’s a monster.

Even though I’m 10 times closer to death than Raditz, I’m still below Raditz, so I seriously have no talent.

Goku is quite the brains, isn’t he?

>>100

When Goku makes plans, it generally seems like he doesn’t take into account the kids’ impulsiveness, resulting in failure.

Why could such a dropout become a Super Saiyan!?

>>101

Because I had the talent to become a Super Saiyan…

>>101

Good luck, a good environment, and a good education.

This is serious.

>>101

If a Saiyan has intense anger and a peaceful heart, I think anyone can become one.

Recently, Goku has become simpler by undervaluing meditation.

>>107

Did you become an idiot from becoming a Super Saiyan too much?

In the end, was Broly the legendary Super Saiyan?

>>108

In the movie version Z, there’s a theory about Broly.

In GT, there’s a theory about Ultra Instinct.

After God and God, there are the previous God and Yamoshi.

The ancestors of the previous Saiyans who defeated the gods and the god of gods in each game.

Even if I train for thousands of years on King Kai’s planet, I’m still at a level where I can’t even touch Vegeta…

If we systematize everything from their way of life to how they train, it feels like the entire Saiyan race could become as strong as Goku.

The rough nature of the ethnic characteristics is a drawback.

>>113

Not having to seek guidance from someone and still reaching a certain level of strength could also be a downside.

Without Super Saiyan, Vegeta is stronger.

During the Buu battle, I understood well what Vegeta said about fighting to win while Goku fights not to lose.

When Goku was dead, Vegeta couldn’t function without an opponent he wanted to defeat.

If you watch Broly, it’s only natural to focus on the simpler side of things.

Is the Kaioken a technique that only Goku can use?

>>122

Is the Spirit Bomb like that too? I heard that Seiko said it could be done if they were motivated, but can they also use the Kaioken?

I was thinking that the reason Goku became so strong was because he almost died from the Super God Water and broke through the wall of low-level warriors, but maybe that’s not it.

By definition, he is the strongest warrior who prefers destruction and slaughter, appearing once every thousand years, so he has to be a totally unpleasant person…

Seeing Vegeta meditating, Goku could only think that he must have hit his head again.