Home » G Generation » [G Generation] I wonder why the damage calculation in mobile games is so unnecessarily complicated.

[G Generation] I wonder why the damage calculation in mobile games is so unnecessarily complicated.

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“` CHARACTER INFORMATION UR Limited Character Kami, Yu Bidan [Series] Series Mobile War Z Kangapi [Type] Attack Type [Pickup Point] The first “HP Rebear” character skill in an attack-type character! When the character skill is activated, it can recover 60% of its own HP, allowing it to maintain a high HP while maneuvering! *Pickup Points include content that can be acquired by leveling up the character. GFTERAL © Creation・Sunrise © Creation・Sunrise・MBS “`

14: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:14

I wonder what the intention was behind using this exponential function and calculating it in multiple steps for balance.

1: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)09:52Yeahx12

Well, if it’s too simple, you can tell without even having to pull that it’s strong or weak.

7: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:04Yeahx6

>>1Until it was revealed that Camille and others were weak due to poor calculations, they were even said to be weak…

2: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)09:56Yeahx9

Well, should I use the Alterios formula from next time…?

16: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:16

>>2A guy who’s really incompatible with inflation in social games.

3: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:02

I can’t quite understand where the buffs in social games are applied just by looking at the game itself.

5: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:03Yeahx2

>>3Every time I see this, I think they should just make the +10% damage calculation directly equal to 1.1 times the damage.

4: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:02

After all, the difference between attack power and defense power is the easiest to understand.

28: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:44

>>4This is Super Robot Wars DD.

97: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:23

>>4Fire Emblem was good for those reasons, but FEH is really confusing now.
I can only judge whether the opponent will die based on predictions.

134: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:55

>>4Isn’t this just a straight path to a crappy game?

135: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:56

>>134Well, it’s easy to manage in the short term, but it can easily lose balance over little things, so it’s difficult to keep it going in the long term.

136: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:56

>>134Is Mario Story and Fire Emblem a terrible game?

6: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:04

I wish they would stop saying that things like Hoyoba have a different value even with the same attack power +5%.

8: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:06

In games like FEH, the damage is simply calculated as attack minus defense, even further simplified by removing critical hits and dodges, and the character parameter categories have also become fewer.
It’s difficult to create a difference in character, and it was inflating endlessly at an incredible pace.
I understand that it’s become this way because what we’re aiming for is closer to a puzzle game than a simulation, but it’s a bit of a double-edged sword.

9: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:08

Look at Puzzle & Dragons.
I’m adjusting it by manipulating the damage cap.

12: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:12

>>9This is Granblue Fantasy when I play…
I don’t know if it’s still the same now.

26: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:43

>>9It all started from messing with the limit that was originally set due to the 32-bit OS…

10: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:09

It’s troublesome that when the attack power increase (small) is hidden as a multiplier, I have to calculate and investigate it from the damage formula.

11: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:11

The image in the thread shows that pilots have statuses, but there is no explanation of how those statuses function at all.
The unit’s attack power is over 10,000, while the pilot’s is in the three digits, but it’s really unclear how this affects anything.

13: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:13

If you understand that the game is solid beyond what the player thinks, then you can trust it.

15: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:14

G data is good because even if you don’t understand the relationships of the numbers, you can still increase it significantly to boost damage.

17: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:26

It’s definitely about dice calculations.

18: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:27

The basics are ATK-DEF, but there are also adjustments based on hit counts like ATK 0.5 × 3 and 1.2 × 1.

19: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:31

This attack will be treated as ◯◯.
It seems to be getting more and more complicated.

20: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:35

Well, things like this will probably see inflation later on, so it may not be essential after all.
If you’re not going to spend a lot, it’s better to securely get what you want.

21: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:37

Since Camille had a particularly high status, it feels like there will be people who care about that.

22: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:41

Rather, the thread image is the simpler one, right?

23: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:41

It’s not as complicated as it sounds; it’s just that buffs can be additive or multiplicative and their effects can vary in position.

24: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:42

>>23Total Attack Value
= (UnAtk + PlAtk x 2) / 10
 
Attack Correction Index
= ((5000 – total attack value) x 30) / 100000
= ((5000 – (UnAtk + PlAtk x 2) / 10) * 30) / 100000
 
Attack modifier
= 100 / (Exp(Attack Adjustment Index) + 1.0)
= 100 / (Exp(((5000 – (UnAtk + PlAtk x 2) / 10) x 30) / 100000) + 1.0)

I think it’s incredibly complicated…

49: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:58

>>23The feeling of a nameless person who responds with an air of superiority after reading only about a quarter of it is truly good.

25: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:42Yeahx3

I would like to have some understanding of the buff effects on the player side.
I want the law to punish things like massive markups.

27: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:44

I was glad to have a means of recovery when my Camille in URz targets weak opponents, and even after crushing the defense side, the escort target still takes damage.

29: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:45

Do you want to play a game that still uses Alterios these days?
Sometimes I think that’s fine for a standalone indie game, but…

32: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:46Yeahx5

>>29Alerios itself is not a bad formula or anything like that.

30: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:45

It seems like everyone is concerned about skill multipliers, but the basic stats are also important, right?

31: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:45Yeahx1

It’s fine if it’s single-digit damage like Marist, right, Alterios?

33: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:47Yeahx2

There were many complaints about not changing Alterioth in the Dragon Quest 3 remake.

34: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:48

>>33If that’s the case and the balance is broken, then it can’t be helped.

36: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:48

>>34???
Since I switched from Arterios, the balance has been broken, right?

38: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:50

>>36So if changing it resulted in a broken balance, it’s only natural that there would be complaints, and that’s exactly what I’m saying…
It’s not that the formula is bad, but rather a problem with the creators not maintaining balance.

42: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:51

>>38Maybe what they wanted to say was “It’s unavoidable that there would be complaints.”
I think that response only conveys the meaning of “It’s unavoidable to return from Alterios.”

37: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:49Yeahx1

>>34No, it’s because I changed it that the balance of physical attacks was broken.

52: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:59Yeahx1

>>33I’ve never seen someone call DQ3 “Alterioth” before.

55: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:01Yeahx1

>>52It’s commonly said, including in the Encyclopedia of Astringency…

57: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:02Yeahx2

>>52It’s understandable that my knowledge is limited, but it’s better to stop thinking that it’s everything without being aware of it.

35: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:48

G-ETA has damage prediction, so it’s not inconvenient even if the formula is like that.

39: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:50

The thread image has a rather subtle bonus for damage dealt and damage taken based on the compatibility of the third ability, according to the calculations.
People who are not very familiar with it tend to prioritize that and organize accordingly.

40: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:50

G Generation doesn’t really understand awakening and response well.

41: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:51

>>40Avoid response
Awakening is a type of offensive power.

43: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:52

In this game, isn’t it more important to increase the unit’s attack power rather than the pilot’s damage dealt?

44: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:52

>>43Reverse

45: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:54

Also over here.

46: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:55

Because the pilot side is more important.
It has a balance that can resist even against a full member with 3 stars.

47: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:57

First of all, Dragon Quest III is not Alterios itself, right?

51: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:59

>>47It’s the Alterios formula, but…
Are you perhaps thinking that the Alterios calculation formula is just attack power minus defense power without applying any coefficients?

53: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:00

>>47Attack power × n – Defense power × n = Damage, it’s the Alterios calculation formula.

48: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:57

By the way, the development side is also creating a similar Excel spreadsheet to make calculations!

50: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)10:58

It’s hard to understand when they say something like “It goes up roughly! It goes up a little!” but then when they say “It’s 143% damage!” sometimes I’m like, what!?

54: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:01Yeahx2

>>50If I explain too much to the users, the knowledge gap will leave new players and those who are just casually playing behind, so I often keep things vague…
But it’s difficult because serious players will have complaints.

56: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:02

>>54Sometimes it feels hard to enter a conversation when numbers are being discussed, so I understand why it can be shown in a vague way, but if it’s too vague that can also be a problem, so it’s tricky…

58: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:02Yeahx2

Dragon Quest math is a part of Altherios, but that’s true.
When you say “we’re together,” it somehow feels different again.

59: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:04Yeahx2

I understand that you just want to say “Arterios,” so can you stop?

60: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:05

When I tried searching for it, it seems to be related to the topic enough to come up as the third su...

Alterios formula Alterios formula Ark Knights Alterios formula Hebuban Alterios formula Dragon Quest 3 Alterios formula Other Alterios formula Issues Alterios formula Megido Alterios formula fe Alterios formula Mario RPG Alterios formula biim

When I tried searching for it, it seems to be related to the topic enough to come up as the third suggestion.
Rather, why are Arknights and Heavens’ Burning up there?

61: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:07

>>60Exactly that.
Therefore

68: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:10

>>61It seems like when I searched for this on X, it’s not that they changed from Alterios, but rather that they’ve changed to something resembling Alterios and are being criticized for it. Which is it?

131: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:52

>>60Arknights uses the Alterios formula for basic physical damage… There is a minimum guarantee of 5% of attack power for damage, and there are also damage reduction abilities separate from defense.
Well, the original inspiration for Arknights gives a more goddess-like impression than things like Alterios…

62: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:07

Which is stronger, a 100 difference in pilot status or an attack burst?
Specifically, between Sretta and Gato, which one has higher damage?

64: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:08Yeahx1

>>62It depends on how much other damage effects are applied.
Because it fluctuates depending on the partner, throw it into a virtual target-setting calculation tool.

66: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:09

>>62Since it’s going to be an explosive start anyway, Asuna can get her spirits up.

63: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:08

Instead of making it unnecessarily complicated, we have to start simple and gradually differentiate the additional characters, and that’s how it becomes complex.

65: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:09

It will become complex, but if there are too few elements in the formula, it will be difficult to differentiate.

67: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:09

Is it true that having the ◯◯ tag on a unique ability results in only a ◯% boost that isn’t very strong?

70: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:11

>>67It would be counterproductive to raise the attack status for that reason.

72: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:11

>>67The status boost is significant, but that’s not very strong.

73: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:12

>>67Since it’s based on status, it can grow if it’s strong and matches the tags, but it doesn’t make sense to attach it to weak ones.

69: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:11

Isn’t it true that such complex calculations and skill explanations are unique to mobile games from China and Korea?

82: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:17

>>69Japanese social games are mostly imitations following the lead of Chinese and Korean social games, so they will be the same.

120: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:45Yeahx1

>>82?

71: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:11Yeahx1

Expressions like “super up” are already difficult to understand, and it’s not acceptable that there are games with the same skill name and wording but different internal multipliers.

81: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:17

>>71The damage changes completely depending on which part the increase applies to.
Is it a boost in base attack power, a boost in attack power including equipment, or a boost in final damage?

74: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:13

Small, Medium, Large, Extra Large, Super Large

75: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:13

Even if the numbers and formulas are written down, I can’t understand them, but I want them to be provided because smart people can calculate and tell me whether they’re useful or not.

76: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:14

The second one posted above on X is easy to understand.
Even though there is a 25% difference in the damage percentage, due to the status difference, Camille’s damage is significantly higher than Shiro’s.

77: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:14

As you can see from games like Paper Mario and Fire Emblem, the Alterios method is an excellent system as long as it can fit within two digits, even if it has a large number of digits.

78: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:15

Granblue Fantasy has become so incomprehensible that even if they add new strong limited characters, I feel like it’s still… strong…?

83: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:17

>>78The timing of attacks, like various types of offensive abilities, was easy to understand.
I got confused because there were more additive-type abilities.

89: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:20

>>78I’m using it with the attitude of “Everyone says it’s strong, so it must be strong…”

79: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:16Yeahx1

Doo-chan and others who don’t know the formulas say that the mobile armor tag is easy to use and tough!
The defense value is too low, so it’s actually tougher to use a pilot with over 600 that was distributed for free.

84: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:18

>>79Aside from girl advice, Kelly is overwhelmingly stronger.

80: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:17

The more complex the calculation formula becomes, the more appreciated the adjustments at the final stage are.

85: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:19Yeahx2

The biggest problem with G Generation is that the evade type is inherently useless…
Doo-chan is weak because of that too.

86: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:19

I think the damage cut effect of the game in the thread image should just be kept as the final cut.
I wonder if that’s why, as various damage reductions increase later on, it could end up being a 100% cut.

88: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:20

>>86It’s only the defense and shield defense that get cut from the final damage reduction, right?
That’s why defense mechs that don’t carry shields are useless.

92: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:21Yeahx5

>>88…???
So the first line is saying, “Isn’t it fine if the damage cut effect is just the final damage cut?”

96: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:23Yeahx1

>>92Realize your own contradictions…

98: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:23Yeahx2

>>96No… I’m sorry, I don’t understand the meaning.

100: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:24Yeahx6

>>96From the side, but the original post seems to be about “Wouldn’t it be better to change to this kind of specification?” and I feel like you might not be understanding it.

87: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:20Yeahx1

If we’re talking about status, if you draw Rakan, you have to use Rakan, right?

90: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:20

>>87Yes

94: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:22

>>87Use it?
I am White Wolf Shin Matsunaga!

91: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:21

Why is Lacan’s defense higher than UR Mika’s and Amuro’s…?

93: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:22

If you are going to do the same thing as other social games
A system to cover Lacan with a pull skin will be implemented soon!

95: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:23Yeahx4

Aren’t there too many quoted replies where we can’t have a conversation?

99: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:23Yeahx1

>>95Because I’m anonymous.

101: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:25Yeahx4

>>95An appropriate example came right below, and it didn’t work out.

102: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:26

The multiplier in Super Robot Wars is often multiplied in the final calculation.

106: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:34

>>102Well, it’s CS after all…

110: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:39

>>102I understand that being hesitant about individual multipliers is because it can cause damage to scale too much and potentially break the game.

103: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:26Yeahx3

In Gundam, most of the characters aren’t engaging in conversation, so it’s no surprise that noname users who can’t communicate appear in the Gundam threads.

104: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:27

I want a one-time purchase version of FEH with a skill set from before the evasion skills were introduced.
I loved that thinking was simple and had a good sense of operation.

105: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:29

It’s lame to make off-target comments without being able to read the text and then run away without saying anything when you get embarrassed…

107: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:37

Managing everything with a separate multiplication method can be quite unfavorable for social games that anticipate future additions.
Unless you are as straightforward as the Infinite Count Gundam.

108: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:38

If it’s CS, I can at least keep an eye on the balance until the end.
Social games are limitless…

109: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:39

One interesting aspect of the damage calculation formula in G Generation is
When facing an opponent with similar parameters, the importance of the defense parameter is high, so Justice (Asran) performs excellently.
When the parameters are far from the opponent, the importance of the HP parameter is high, so Gundam (Amuro) has high performance.
It’s clever to make it so that various aircraft become the optimal solution under different rules.

111: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:40

At first, it may have a simple combat system, but later it can become a big mess with too many new elements added.
Chinese games have a lot of elements that feel like they are in the third year of Japanese mobile games from the very beginning.

112: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:40

The damage calculation formula in G Generation is really well done.

114: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:42Yeahx1

It’s not limited to Chinese games, but I want them to stop adding unknown buffs unique to that character.

115: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:42

The social game I’m playing uses an attack power minus defense power calculation, which I think is easy to adjust and a good formula.

116: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:44

I only did the beginning and then left it untouched.
If Camille is strong, I want to do it again.
The gacha seems to be tough…

117: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:44Yeahx1

>>116It’s already over for the limited edition.

119: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:45

>>117What the hell!

122: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:47

>>116It’s quite kind.
I’m free-to-play, but I’ve managed to pull all the limited units.

127: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:49Yeahx1

>>116At the ceiling for the limited UR, if you have 60,000 supporters, it will be 90,000, so do your best and spend money!
I can’t pull Camille right now.

118: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:45

To make it an infinite number…

121: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:47Yeahx1

If it’s a one-time purchase, it’s fine to balance it up to the final boss battle, so as long as any calculation formula is properly designed, there shouldn’t be a problem. However, for ongoing operations, if it continues for 2 or 3 years, inflation will inevitably occur…

123: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:47

You can’t even do a follow-up copy.

124: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:48

Sirocco is not limited, so you can pull for him if you slip through, but Camille is limited, so you have to wait for a rerun.

125: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:48

I wonder if the calculation complexity auto will create a few millimeters remaining…

128: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:50

>>125The issue is not with the calculation itself, but with including crits in the damage expected value when predicting damage.

126: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:49

I feel like I’ve seen that the pace of reprints is relatively fast, but I can’t remember the source.

129: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:52

It’s a story not limited to mobile games, but a formula.
It’s not just simple if it’s for consumers.

130: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:52

Because there are free-to-play Camille and Z.
It’s fine to enjoy Camille outside of end content.

132: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:53

Free-to-play Camille is weak, so if you want to play with a strong Camille, you’ll have to wait for a rerun.

133: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:54

If it’s just this level, it would be the same for a complete purchase game, right?
The purchase of G Generation is similar, and Super Robot Wars is like this too.

137: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:57

There is a formula where occasionally, if the level is raised too high due to excessive complexity, a phenomenon occurs where it becomes weaker.

138: Japan Otaku Reviews25/06/12(Thu)11:59Yeahx1

That’s fine for CS, but when it comes to something like social games, it’s different.

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